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《魯問 - Lu's Question》

English translation: W. P. Mei [?] Library Resources
1 魯問:
魯君謂子墨子曰:「吾恐齊之攻我也,可救乎?」子墨子曰:「可。昔者,三代之聖王禹湯文武,百里之諸侯也,說忠行義,取天下。三代之暴王桀紂幽厲,讎怨行暴,失天下。吾願主君,之上者尊天事鬼,下者愛利百姓,厚為皮幣,卑辭令,亟遍禮四鄰諸侯,敺國而以事齊,患可救也,非此,顧無可為者。」
Lu's Question:
The Lord of Lu asked Mozi: "I fear Qi will attack me. Is there any remedy?" Mozi said: Yes, the sage-kings of the Three Dynasties, Yu, Tang, Wen, and Wu, were originally feudal lords of states of only a hundred li square. Yet, enlisting the loyal and practising righteousness, they acquired the empire. While the wicked kings of the Three Dynasties, Jie, Zhou, You, and Li, by estranging the loyal and practising wickedness, lost the empire. I wish your Lordship would reverence Heaven and the spirits above and love and benefit the people below; prepare plenty of furs and money and humble your speech to befriend all the neighbouring lords, and lead the state to serve Qi. Besides this, indeed nothing can be done.

2 魯問:
齊將伐魯,子墨子謂項子牛曰:「伐魯,齊之大過也。昔者,吳王東伐越,棲諸會稽,西伐楚,葆昭王於隨。北伐齊,取國子以歸於吳。諸侯報其讎,百姓苦其勞,而弗為用,是以國為虛戾,身為刑戮也。昔者,智伯伐范氏與中行氏,兼三晉之地,諸侯報其讎,百姓苦其勞,而弗為用,是以國為虛戾,身為刑戮用是也。故大國之攻小國也,是交相賊也,過必反於國。」
Lu's Question:
Qi was going to attack Lu. Mozi said to Xiang Zi Niu: To attack Lu is a great wrong on the part of Qi. Formerly, the Lord of Wu attacked Yue on the east and drove (Lord Gou Jian of Yue) to take refuge upon Guiji. He attacked Chu on the west and hold fast Lord Zhao at Sui. On the north he attacked Qi and brought Guozi back to Wu. The feudal lords then took vengeance and his people complained of the hardship and would not be commanded. Thereupon the state perished and the Lord of Wu was executed. Formerly, Zhi Bo attacked both the house of Fan and the house of Zhongxing, and absorbed all the land of the Three Jin states. The feudal lords then took vengeance and his people complained of the hardship and would not be commanded. Thereupon the state perished and he was executed. Therefore the attack of a large state on a small state is injury to both and the consequences of the wrong will always return to the large state.

3 魯問:
子墨子見齊大王曰:「今有刀於此,試之人頭,倅然斷之,可謂利乎?」大王曰:「利。」子墨子曰:「多試之人頭,倅然斷之,可謂利乎?」大王曰:「利。」子墨子曰:「刀則利矣,孰將受其不祥?」大王曰:「刀受其利,試者受其不祥。」子墨子曰:「并國覆軍,賊殺百姓,孰將受其不祥?」大王俯仰而思之曰:「我受其不祥。」
Lu's Question:
Mozi saw the Grand Lord of Qi and said: Suppose here is a sword. When it is tried on a man's neck it severs it swiftly. Can it be said to be sharp? The Grand Lord said it is sharp. Mozi said: When it is tried on several men's necks, it severs them swiftly. Can it be said to be sharp? The Grand Lord said it is sharp. Mozi said: Of course, the sword is (proved to be) sharp, but who will take the curse of the deed upon him? The Grand Lord said that the sword reaped the benefit but he who tries it will be visited by the curse for the act. Mozi continued : Now to capture a state, ruin an army, and destroy the people - who will be visited by the curse for this act? The Grand Lord looked down and up and deliberated, saying: "I shall be visited with the curse for this act."

4 魯問:
魯陽文君將攻鄭,子墨子聞而止之,謂陽文君曰:「今使魯四境之內,大都攻其小都,大家伐其小家,殺其人民,取其牛馬狗豕布帛米粟貨財,則何若?」魯陽文君曰:「魯四境之內,皆寡人之臣也。今大都攻其小都,大家伐其小家,奪之貨財,則寡人必將厚罰之。」子墨子曰:「夫天之兼有天下也,亦猶君之有四境之內也。今舉兵將以攻鄭,天誅亓不至乎?」魯陽文君曰:「先生何止我攻鄭也?我攻鄭,順於天之志。鄭人三世殺其父,天加誅焉,使三年不全。我將助天誅也。」子墨子曰:「鄭人三世殺其父而天加誅焉,使三年不全。天誅足矣,今又舉兵將以攻鄭,曰『吾攻鄭也,順於天之志』。譬有人於此,其子強梁不材,故其父笞之,其鄰家之父舉木而擊之,曰:『吾擊之也,順於其父之志』,則豈不悖哉?」
Lu's Question:
Prince Wen of Lu Yang was going to attack Zheng. Mozi heard of it and tried to stop him, saying to him: Suppose within the borders of Lu Yang the large cities should attack the small cities and the large houses attack the small houses, killing the people and carrying away the oxen and horses, dogs and hogs, cloth and silk, and grains and valuables. What would you say? Prince Wen of Lu Yang replied: "Within the borders of Lu Yang all are my subjects. Now, should the large cities attack the small cities and the large houses attack the small houses, carrying away their valuables, I should punish them severely." Mozi said: Now, Heaven possesses the whole world just as your Lordship possesses your state. But you are raising an army to attack Zheng. Shouldn't punishment from Heaven come to you? Prince Wen of Lu Yang said: "Why should you, sir, prevent me from attacking Zheng? I attack Zheng, in accordance with the will of Heaven. The people of Zheng have murdered their father for three generations. Heaven has been visiting them with punishment. It has caused them to be unprosperous for three years. I am only helping Heaven to carry out the punishment." Mozi said: The people of Zheng have murdered their father for three generations. Heaven has been visiting them with punishment. It has caused them to be unprosperous for three years. The punishment of Heaven is sufficient. Yet, you are raising an army to attack Zheng, proclaiming: "My attack on Zheng is in accordance with the will of Heaven." Suppose there is a man whose son is strong but insolent. So the father punished him with a ferule. But the neighbour's father struck him with a heavy staff, saying: "It is in accordance with his father's will that I strike him." Isn't this perversity?

5 魯問:
子墨子謂魯陽文君曰:「攻其鄰國,殺其民人,取其牛馬、粟米、貨財,則書之於竹帛,鏤之於金石,以為銘於鍾鼎,傳遺後世子孫曰:『莫若我多。』今賤人也,亦攻其鄰家,殺其人民,取其狗豕食糧衣裘,亦書之竹帛,以為銘於席豆,以遺後世子孫曰:『莫若我多。』亓可乎?」魯陽文君曰:「然吾以子之言觀之,則天下之所謂可者,未必然也。」
Lu's Question:
Mozi said to Prince Wen of Lu Yang: If a lord had attacked the neighbouring states, killed their people, carried away their oxen and horses, grains and valuables, a lord might yet record it on bamboos and silk and engrave it on metal and stone and write it up into maxims on the bell and the ting to hand down to posterity, saying: "None possess so much as I." Now, the unscrupulous common man also attacks neighbouring homes, kills their inmates, and takes the dogs and hogs, food and clothing. They would also like to record it on bamboos and silk and write it up into maxims on the vessels and dishes to hand down to posterity, saying: "None possesses so much as I." Is this permissible? Prince Wen of Lu Yang said: "According to what you have said then what the world takes for granted may not be right after all."

6 魯問:
子墨子為魯陽文君曰:「世俗之君子,皆知小物而不知大物。今有人於此,竊一犬一彘則謂之不仁,竊一國一都則以為義。譬猶小視白謂之白,大視白則謂之黑。是故世俗之君子,知小物而不知大物者,此若言之謂也。」
Lu's Question:
Mozi said to Prince Wen of Lu Yang: The gentlemen of the world know only trifles but not things of importance. If a man steals a dog or pig, they call him wicked. But stealing a state or a city is regarded as righteous. This is similar to calling it white when one sees a little white, but calling it black when he sees much white. And this is what is meant when we say the gentlemen of the world know only trifles and not things of importance.

7 魯問:
魯陽文君語子墨子曰:「楚之南有啖人之國者橋,其國之長子生,則鮮而食之,謂之宜弟。美,則以遺其君,君喜則賞其父。豈不惡俗哉?」子墨子曰:「雖中國之俗,亦猶是也。殺其父而賞其子,何以異食其子而賞其父者哉?苟不用仁義,何以非夷人食其子也?」
Lu's Question:
Prince Wen of Lu Yang said to Mozi: There is a cannibal tribe on the south of Chu. When the first son is born they dissect and devour him. This is said to be propitious to his younger brothers. If he tastes delicious, he will be offered to the chief, and if the chief is pleased the father will be rewarded. Isn't this a wicked custom?" Mozi said: So is the custom in China. How is killing the father and rewarding the son different from devouring the son and rewarding the father? If magnanimity and righteousness are not observed, wherefore shall we condemn the barbarians for eating their sons?

8 魯問:
魯君之嬖人死,魯君為之誄,魯人因說而用之。子墨子聞之曰:「誄者,道死人之志也,今因說而用之,是猶以來首從服也。」
Lu's Question:
Upon the death of a favourite concubine of the Lord of Lu, somebody in Lu wrote an obituary for her. The Lord of Lu was pleased with it and employed the writer. Mozi heard of it and remarked: An obituary is but to narrate the ambitions of the dead. To employ the man because his obituary is pleasing is like making the wild cat pull a carriage.

9 魯問:
魯陽文君謂子墨子曰:「有語我以忠臣者,令之俯則俯,令之仰則仰,處則靜,呼則應,可謂忠臣乎?」子墨子曰:「令之俯則俯,令之仰則仰,是似景也。處則靜,呼則應,是似響也。君將何得於景與響哉?若以翟之所謂忠臣者,上有過則微之以諫,己有善,則訪之上,而無敢以告。外匡其邪,而入其善,尚同而無下比,是以美善在上,而怨讎在下,安樂在上,而憂慼在臣。此翟之所謂忠臣者也。」
Lu's Question:
Prince Wen of Lu Yang asked Mozi: "Suppose somebody was recommended as a loyal minister. And he would bow down when I let him bow down; he would bend back when I let him bend back. Staying there he would be silent, and when called upon he would answer. Can this be said to be loyal?" Mozi said: To bow down when permitted, to bend back when permitted - this is but a shadow. To remain silent when let alone, to answer when called upon - this is but an echo. What would your Lordship get out of an echo or a shadow? According to my conception of a loyal minister, when the superior is at fault he should wait and warn; possessing a good idea he should give counsel to the superior without revealing it to the world; he should correct irregularities and lead in goodness ; he should identify himself with the superior and not ally himself with subordinates. So that goodness and excellences will be attributed to the superior and complaints and grudges lodged against the subordinates; so that ease and happiness be with the superior and trouble and worry with the ministers. This is what I call a loyal minister.

10 魯問:
魯君謂子墨子曰:「我有二子,一人者好學,一人者好分人財,孰以為太子而可?」子墨子曰:「未可知也,或所為賞與為是也。魡者之恭,非為魚賜也;餌鼠以蟲,非愛之也。吾願主君之合其志功而觀焉。」
Lu's Question:
The Lord of Lu consulted Mozi, saying: "Now I have two sons. One likes learning and the other likes dividing property for people. Which one should be crowned Prince?" Mozi said: We can't tell (just from this). It may be that they behave so just for the praise and reward of it. The fisherman's bait is not intended to feed the fish. Trapping a mouse with worms is not for the love of the mouse. I wish your Lordship would observe both their intention and consequences.

11 魯問:
魯人有因子墨子而學其子者,其子戰而死,其父讓子墨子。子墨子曰:子欲學子之子,今學成矣,戰而死,而子慍,而猶欲糶,糶讎,則慍也。豈不費哉?」
Lu's Question:
There was a man in Lu who sent his son to Mozi to study. The son perished in a battle. The father blamed Mozi for it. Mozi said: You wanted to have your son trained. Now he had completed his training and died in battle. And you become sore. This is like trying to sell something, and yet becoming sore when it is sold. Isn't this peculiar?

12 魯問:
魯之南鄙人,有吳慮者,冬陶夏耕,自比於舜。子墨子聞而見之。吳慮謂子墨子「義耳義耳,焉用言之哉?」子墨子曰:「子之所謂義者,亦有力以勞人,有財以分人乎?」吳慮曰:「有。」子墨子曰:「翟嘗計之矣。翟慮耕而食天下之人矣,盛,然後當一農之耕,分諸天下,不能人得一升粟。籍而以為得一升粟,其不能飽天下之飢者,既可睹矣。翟慮織而衣天下之人矣,盛,然後當一婦人之織,分諸天下,不能人得尺布。籍而以為得尺布,其不能煖天下之寒者,既可睹矣。翟慮被堅執銳救諸侯之患,盛,然後當一夫之戰,一夫之戰其不御三軍,既可睹矣。翟以為不若誦先王之道,而求其說,通聖人之言,而察其辭,上說王公大人,次匹夫徒步之士。王公大人用吾言,國必治;匹夫徒步之士用吾言,行必脩。故翟以為雖不耕而食飢,不織而衣寒,功賢於耕而食之、織而衣之者也。故翟以為雖不耕織乎,而功賢於耕織也。」吳慮謂子墨子曰:「義耳義耳,焉用言之哉?」子墨子曰:「籍設而天下不知耕,教人耕,與不教人耕而獨耕者,其功孰多?」吳慮曰:「教人耕者其功多。」子墨子曰:「籍設而攻不義之國,鼓而使眾進戰,與不鼓而使眾進戰,而獨進戰者,其功孰多?」吳慮曰:「鼓而進眾者其功多。」子墨子曰:「天下匹夫徒步之士,少知義而教天下以義者,功亦多,何故弗言也?若得鼓而進於義,則吾義豈不益進哉?」
Lu's Question:
Among the rustic people living south of Lu there was a man by the name of Wu Lu. Making pottery in winter and farming in summer, he compared himself to Shun. Mozi heard of him and went to see him. Wu Lu told Mozi: "Righteousness is just righteousness. Wherefore all the verbosity? Mozi asked him: Now, does what you call righteousness possess power to serve other people and produce wealth to divide among the people? Wu Lu said that it does. Mozi continued: I have deliberated about this matter. I have thought of becoming a farmer and feeding the people in the world. If that could be successful I would become one. But when a farmer's produce is divided among the world, each person cannot get even one sheng of grain. Even if he can obtain, that much, evidently that cannot feed all the hungry in the world. I have thought of becoming a weaver and clothing all the people in the world. If that could be successful I would become one. But when a weaver's goods are divided among the world, each person cannot get even a foot of cloth. Even if he can obtain that much, evidently that cannot keep all who are cold in the world warm. I have thought of putting on armour and carrying a weapon to come to the feudal lord's rescue. If that could be successful I would become a soldier. Now it is evident that a soldier cannot hold out against a regular army. I concluded that none of these is as good as to familiarize myself with the Tao of the ancient sage-kings, and discover their principles, and to understand the word of the sages and be clear about their expressions; and with these to persuade the rulers and then the common people and the pedestrians. When the rulers adopt my principles their states will be orderly. When the common people and the pedestrians adopt my principles their conduct will be regulated. Therefore I think though I do not plow and feed the hungry or weave and clothe the cold, I have greater merit than those who plow and feed, and weave and clothe. Therefore I think my merit is greater than that of those who plow and weave though I do not do so. Wu Lu kept on saying, "Righteousness is just righteousness. Wherefore all the verbosity?" Mozi continued: Suppose the world does not know how to plow. Who has more merit, the man who teaches people to plow, or he who does not teach people to plow but simply plows himself? Wu Lu answered that he that teaches others to plow deserves more merit. Mozi said: In the attack of an unrighteous state, does he that beats the drum and urges the soldiers to fight on, or does he that does not beat the drum and urge the soldiers to fight on but only fights on himself deserve more merit? Wu Lu said that he that beats the drum and urges the soldiers to fight on deserves more merit. Mozi continued: Now the common people and the pedestrians in the world know little about righteousness. Naturally those who teach them righteousness deserve more merit too. Why don't you say so (in this case)? Would not my righteousness be advanced if I can encourage them in righteousness?

13 魯問:
子墨子游公尚過於越。公尚過說越王,越王大說,謂公尚過曰:「先生苟能使子墨子於越而教寡人,請裂故吳之地,方五百里,以封子墨子。」公尚過許諾。遂為公尚過束車五十乘,以迎子墨子於魯,曰:「吾以夫子之道說越王,越王大說,謂過曰,苟能使子墨子至於越,而教寡人,請裂故吳之地,方五百里,以封子。」子墨子謂公尚過曰:「子觀越王之志何若?意越王將聽吾言,用我道,則翟將往,量腹而食,度身而衣,自比於群臣,奚能以封為哉?抑越不聽吾言,不用吾道,而吾往焉,則是我以義糶也。鈞之糶,亦於中國耳,何必於越哉?」
Lu's Question:
After Mozi had paid Gong Shang Guo a visit, Gong Shang Guo recommended him to the Lord of Yue. The Lord of Yue was greatly pleased, saying to Gong Shang Guo: "Sir, if you can induce Mozi to come to Yue and instruct me I shall offer him five hundred li square of the land lying in the former state of Wu." Gong Shang Guo promised to try and so fifty wagons were made ready to go to Lu, and welcome Mozi. (Gong Shang Guo) told him: "When I tried to persuade the Lord of Yue with your principles he was quite pleased and said to me that if I could induce you to come to Yue and instruct him, he would offer you five hundred li square of the land lying in the former state of Wu." Mozi said to Gong Shang Guo: As you observe it, what is the intention of the Lord of Yue? If the Lord of Yue will listen to my word and adopt my way, I shall come, asking only for food according to the capacity of my stomach, and clothing according to the stature of my body. I shall just be one of the ministers. What is the use of any commission? On the other hand, if the Lord of Yue will not listen to my word and adopt my way and I should go nevertheless, I should then be selling my righteousness. As for selling righteousness I could very well do it in China, why should I then go out to Yue?

14 魯問:
子墨子游,魏越曰:「既得見四方之君子,則將先語?」子墨子曰:「凡入國,必擇務而從事焉。國家昏亂,則語之尚賢、尚同;國家貧,則語之節用、節葬;國家說音湛湎,則語之非樂、非命;國家遙僻無禮,則語之尊天、事鬼;國家務奪侵凌,即語之兼愛、非攻,故曰擇務而從事焉。」
Lu's Question:
Mozi was visiting Wei Yue. The latter asked: "Now that you have seen the gentlemen of the four quarters, what would you say is the most urgent enterprise?" Mozi replied: Upon entering a country one should locate the need and work on that. If the country is upset in confusion, teach them with the (doctrines of) Exaltation of the Virtuous and Identification with the Superior. If the country is in poverty, teach them with Economy of Expenditures and Simplicity in Funeral. If the country is indulging in music and wine, teach them with Condemnation of Music and Anti-fatalism. If the country is insolent and without propriety, teach them to reverence Heaven and worship the spirits. If the country is engaged in conquest and oppression, teach them with Universal Love and Condemnation of Offensive War. Hence we say, one should locate the need and work on that.

15 魯問:
子墨子出曹公子而於宋三年而反,睹子墨子曰:「始吾游於子之門,短褐之衣,藜藿之羹,朝得之,則夕弗得,祭祀鬼神。今而以夫子之教,家厚於始也。有家厚,謹祭祀鬼神。然而人徒多死,六畜不蕃,身湛於病,吾未知夫子之道之可用也。」子墨子曰:「不然!夫鬼神之所欲於人者多,欲人之處高爵祿則以讓賢也,多財則以分貧也。夫鬼神豈唯攫黍拑肺之為欲哉?今子處高爵祿而不以讓賢,一不祥也;多財而不以分貧,二不祥也。今子事鬼神唯祭而已矣,而曰:『病何自至哉?』是猶百門而閉一門焉,曰『盜何從入?』若是而求福於有怪之鬼,豈可哉?」
Lu's Question:
Mozi had recommended Cao Gongzi to Sung. He returned in three years and saw Mozi, saying: "When I first came to your school I had to wear short jackets and eat vegetable soup. Even this I could not have in the evening if I had had it in the morning. And I had nothing to offer and sacrifice to the ghosts and spirits. Now, on your account my family has become better off. And I could respectfully offer sacrifice and worship ghosts and spirits at home. Yet several members of my household died off, the six animals do not breed, and I have myself been troubled with ailments. I doubt if your way is after all to be adopted." Mozi said: This is not fair. For what the ghosts and spirits desire of man is that when in high rank and receiving much emolument, he give up his position in favour of the virtuous; that when possessing much wealth he share it with the poor. How can the ghosts and spirits merely desire to snatch food and drink? Now, when in high rank and receiving much emolument you did not give up your position in favour of the virtuous. This is your first step to bad fortune. Possessing much wealth you did not share it with the poor. This is your second step towards misfortune. Now you serve the ghosts and spirits by merely offering them sacrifice; and you wonder whence come all the ailments. This is like shutting one out of a hundred gates and wondering whence the thieves entered. How can you invoke ghosts and spirits for blessing like this?

16 魯問:
魯祝以一豚祭,而求百福於鬼神。子墨子聞之曰:「是不可,今施人薄而望人厚,則人唯恐其有賜於己也。今以一豚祭,而求百福於鬼神,唯恐其以牛羊祀也。古者聖王事鬼神,祭而已矣。今以豚祭而求百福,則其富不如其貧也。」
Lu's Question:
The master of sacrifice of Lu offered one pig and asked for a hundred blessings. Upon hearing of it Mozi said: This cannot be done. To give others little but to expect much from others would make them afraid of gifts. Now one pig is offered and a hundred blessings are asked of the ghosts and spirits. They would be quite afraid of a sacrifice of oxen and sheep. Anciently, when the sage-kings worshipped the ghosts and spirits, they just offered them sacrifice and that was all. One would be better off to remain poor than become rich by offering a pig for sacrifice and asking for a hundred blessings.

17 魯問:
彭輕生子曰:「往者可知,來者不可知。」子墨子曰:「籍設而親在百里之外,則遇難焉,期以一日也,及之則生,不及則死。今有固車良馬於此,又有奴馬四隅之輪於此,使子擇焉,子將何乘?對曰:「乘良馬固車,可以速至。」子墨子曰:「焉在矣來!」
Lu's Question:
Peng Qing Shengzi said: "The past can be known, the future cannot." Mozi said: Suppose your parents met with misfortune a hundred li away. And there was just the margin of a single day. If they could be reached they would live, if not they would die. Here are a strong wagon and an excellent horse, and also a bad horse and a square-wheeled cart. And you are allowed to choose. Which would you take? It was replied that the excellent horse and the strong wagon would of course make for a more speedy journey. Mozi said: How then is the future not knowable?

18 魯問:
孟山譽王子閭曰:「昔白公之禍,執王子閭斧鉞鉤要,直兵當心,謂之曰:『為王則生,不為王則死。』王子閭曰:『何其侮我也!殺我親而喜我以楚國,我得天下而不義,不為也,又況於楚國乎?』遂而不為。王子閭豈不仁哉?」子墨子曰:「難則難矣,然而未仁也。若以王為無道,則何故不受而治也?若以白公為不義,何故不受王,誅白公然而反王?故曰難則難矣,然而未仁也。」
Lu's Question:
Meng Shan praised Prince Ze Lu, saying: "Formerly, in the uprising of Bo Gong, Prince Ze Lu was held captive. With axes around his waist and spears pointing at his heart, Bo Gong told him to be Lord and live or refuse and die. Prince Ze Lu said to him, 'What an insult to me. You have killed my parents and now bait me with the state of Chu. If it is not righteous I would not even take the whole empire, to say nothing of the state of Chu.' Thus he refused. Wasn't Prince Ze Lu magnanimous?" Mozi said: What he did was indeed difficult, but hardly magnanimous. If he thought the Lord had gone astray from the Tao, why not accept the offer and undertake the government himself? If he thought Bo Gong was unrighteous, why not accept the Lordship also, execute Bo Gong, and then return the Lordship to the Lord? Therefore I say what he did was indeed difficult, but hardly magnanimous.

19 魯問:
子墨子使勝綽事項子牛。項子牛三侵魯地,而勝綽三從。子墨子聞之,使高孫子請而退之曰:「我使綽也,將以濟驕而正嬖也。今綽也祿厚而譎夫子,夫子三侵魯,而綽三從,是鼓鞭於馬靳也。翟聞之:『言義而弗行,是犯明也。』綽非弗之知也,祿勝義也。」
Lu's Question:
Mozi sent Sheng Zhuo to serve Xiang Zi Niu. Xiang Zi Niu invaded Lu three times, and Sheng Zhuo was three times with him. Hearing of this, Mozi sent Gao Sunzi to call him back, saying: I sent Zhuo there in order to cure pride and regulate insolence. Now, Zhuo draws a large salary and flatters his master. His master invaded Lu three times and he was with him every time. This is like whipping a horse by its martingale. I have heard that to preach righteousness but do it not is intentional commitment of wrong. It is not that Zhuo is ignorant. It is a case of victory of emolument over righteousness.

20 魯問:
昔者楚人與越人舟戰於江,楚人順流而進,迎流而退,見利而進,見不利則其退難。越人迎流而進,順流而退,見利而進,見不利則其退速,越人因此若埶,亟敗楚人。公輸子自魯南游楚,焉始為舟戰之器,作為鉤強之備,退者鉤之,進者強之,量其鉤強之長,而制為之兵,楚之兵節,越之兵不節,楚人因此若埶,亟敗越人。公輸子善其巧,以語子墨子曰:「我舟戰有鉤強,不知子之義亦有鉤強乎?」子墨子曰:「我義之鉤強,賢於子舟戰之鉤強。我鉤強,我鉤之以愛,揣之以恭。弗鉤以愛,則不親;弗揣以恭,則速狎;狎而不親則速離。故交相愛,交相恭,猶若相利也。今子鉤而止人,人亦鉤而止子,子強而距人,人亦強而距子,交相鉤,交相強,猶若相害也。故我義之鉤強,賢子舟戰之鉤強。」
Lu's Question:
Formerly the people of Chu and the people of Yue had a battle on the River. The people of Chu were with the stream in their advance but against it in their retreat. When success was in sight they advanced. But when defeat was confronting them they found it very difficult to retreat. On the contrary the people of Yue advanced upstream but retreated downstream. When success was in sight they would advance. And when defeat was confronting them they could easily retreat. With this advantage the people of Yue greatly defeated the people of Chu. Gong Shuzi came south from Lu to Chu, and began making implements for naval warfare which consisted of grappling hooks and rams. When the enemy were retreating they used the hooks. And when the enemy were advancing they employed the rams. And the weapons were made according to the length of these hooks and rams. The weapons of Chu thus were all standardized, and those of Yue were not. And, with this advantage, the people of Chu greatly defeated the people of Yue. Gong Shuzi was proud of his cleverness and asked Mozi: "There are the implements for grappling and ramming in my boats of war. Do you have such a device in your righteousness?" Mozi said: The grappling and ramming device in my righteousness is more excellent than your implements in the boats of war. In my scheme, I pull with love and push with respect. If you do not pull with love there can be no intimacy. If you do not push with respect there will be rapid desecration. And desecration without real intimacy will soon end in separation. Therefore mutual love and mutual respect mean really mutual benefit. Now you pull people up to stop their retreat, but they would also pull you up and stop your retreat. You push people back to stop their advance, but they would also push you back to stop your advance. The mutual pulling and pushing are just mutual injury. Therefore the device of pulling and pushing in my righteousness is more excellent than the implements of pulling and pushing in your boats of war.

21 魯問:
公輸子削竹木以為鵲,成而飛之,三日不下,公輸子自以為至巧。子墨子謂公輸子曰:「子之為鵲也,不如匠之為車轄。須臾劉三寸之木,而任五十石之重。故所為功,利於人謂之巧,不利於人謂之拙。」
Lu's Question:
Gong Shuzi constructed a bird from bamboo and wood and when it was completed he flew it. It stayed up (in the air) for three days. Gong Shuzi was proud of his supreme skill. Mozi said to him: Your accomplishment in constructing a bird does not compare with that of the carpenter in making a linch-pin. In a short while he could cut out the piece of wood of three inches. Yet it would carry a load of fifty shi. For, any achievement that is beneficial to man is said to be beautiful, and anything not beneficial is said to be clumsy.

22 魯問:
公輸子謂子墨子曰:「吾未得見之時,我欲得宋,自我得見之後,予我宋而不義,我不為。」子墨子曰:「翟之未得見之時也,子欲得宋,自翟得見子之後,予子宋而不義,子弗為,是我予子宋也。子務為義,翟又將予子天下。」
Lu's Question:
Gong Shuzi confessed to Mozi: "Before I saw you, I wished to take Song. Since I have seen you, even if Song were offered me I would not take it if it is unrighteous." Mozi said: Before you saw me you wished to take Song. Since you have seen me even if Song were offered to you you would not take it if it unrighteous. This means I have given you Song. If you engage yourself in doing righteousness, I shall yet give you the whole world.

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