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《说民 - Discussion about the People》

English translation: J. J. L. Duyvendak [?] Library Resources
1 说民:
辩慧,乱之赞也;礼乐,淫佚之徵也;慈仁,过之母也;任誉,奸之鼠也。乱有赞则行,淫佚有徵则用,过有母则生,奸有鼠则不止。八者有群,民胜其政;国无八者,政胜其民。民胜其政,国弱;政胜其民,兵强。故国有八者,上无以使守战,必削至亡;国无八者,上有以使守战,必兴至王。
Discussion about the People:...:
Sophistry and cleverness are an aid to lawlessness; rites and music are symptoms of dissipations and licence; kindness and benevolence are the foster-mother of transgressions; employment and promotion are opportunities for the rapacity of the wicked. If lawlessness is aided, it becomes current; if there are symptoms of dissipation and licence, they will become the practice; if there is a foster-mother for transgressions, they will arise; if there are opportunities for the rapacity of the wicked, they will never cease. If these eight things come together, the people will be stronger than the government; but if these eight things are non-existent in a state, the government will be stronger than the people. If the people are stronger than the government, the state is weak; if the government is stronger than the people, the army is strong. For if these eight things exist, the ruler has no one to use for defence and war, with the result that the state will be dismembered and will come to ruin; but if there are not these eight things, the ruler has the wherewithal for defence and war, with the result that the state will flourish and attain supremacy.

2 说民:
用善,则民亲其亲;任奸,则民亲其制。合而复之者,善也;别而规之者,奸也。章善则过匿,任奸则罪诛。过匿则民胜法,罪诛则法胜民。民胜法,国乱;法胜民,兵强。故曰:以良民治,必乱至削;以奸民治,必治至强。
Discussion about the People:...:
If virtuous officials are employed, the people will love their own relatives, but if wicked officials are employed, the people will love the statutes. To agree with, and to respond to, others is what the virtuous do; to differ from, and to spy upon, others is what the wicked do. If the virtuous are placed in positions of evidence, transgressions will remain hidden; but if the wicked are employed, crimes will be punished. In the former case the people will be stronger than the law; in the latter, the law will be stronger than the people. If the people are stronger than the law, there is lawlessness in the state, but if the law is stronger than the people, the army will be strong. Therefore is it said: 'Governing through good people leads to lawlessness and dismemberment; governing through wicked people leads to order and strength.'

3 说民:
国以难攻,起一取十;国以易攻,起十亡百。国好力,曰:“以难攻”;国好言,曰:“以易攻”。民易为言,难为用。国法作民之所难,兵用民之所易,而以力攻者,起一得十。国法作民之所易,兵用民之所难,而以言攻者,出十亡百。
Discussion about the People:...:
A country which attacks with what is difficult will gain ten points for every one that it undertakes; a country which attacks with what is easy will lose a hundred men for every ten that it marches out. A country that loves force is said to attack with what is difficult; a country that loves words is said to attack with what is easy. People find it easy to talk, but difficult to serve. A state where, when the laws of the country are applied, conditions for the people are hard and by military service those conditions are eased, so that it attacks with force, will gain ten points for every one it undertakes; but a state where, when the laws of the country are applied, conditions for the people are easy, and by military service those conditions are made hard, so that it attacks with words, will lose a hundred men for every ten that it marches out.

4 说民:
罚重,爵尊;赏轻,刑威。爵尊,上爱民;刑威,民死上。故兴国行罚则民利,用赏则上重。法详则刑繁,法简则刑省。民不治则乱,乱而治之又乱。故治之于其治,则治;治之于其乱,则乱。
Discussion about the People:...:
The fact that penalties are heavy makes rank the more honourable, and the fact that rewards are light makes punishments the more awe-inspiring. If rank is honoured, the ruler loves the people, and if punishments are so awe-inspiring, the people still die for their ruler. Therefore, in a prosperous country, the people profit by the application of penalties, and by the distribution of rewards the ruler will gain credit. If the law goes into details, the punishments will be multitudinous; if the laws are multitudinous, punishments will be scarce. If, from a condition of rule and order, the people become lawless, and if one tries to rule this lawlessness, it will only increase; therefore, it should be ruled while it is still in a state of rule and order, then there will be true rule and order; if it is ruled while it is in a state of lawlessness, lawlessness will remain.

5 说民:
民之情也治,其事也乱。故行刑,重其轻者;轻者不生,则重者无从至矣。此谓“治之于其治”也。行刑,重其重者,轻其轻者;轻者不止,则重者无从止矣。此谓“治之于其乱”也。故重轻,则刑去事成,国强;重重而轻轻,则刑至而事生,国削。
Discussion about the People:...:
It is the nature of the people to be orderly, but it is circumstances that cause disorder. Therefore, in the application of punishments, light offences should be regarded as serious; if light offences do not occur, serious ones have no chance of coming. This is said to be "ruling the people while in a state of law and order". If in the application of punishments, serious offences are regarded as serious, and light offences as light, light offences will not cease and in consequence, there will be no means of stopping the serious ones. This is said to be "ruling the people while in a state of lawlessness". So, if light offences are regarded as serious, punishments will be abolished, affairs will succeed and the country will be strong; but if serious offences are regarded as serious and light ones as light, then punishments will appear; moreover, trouble will arise and the country will be dismembered.

6 说民:
民勇,则赏之以其所欲;民怯,则刑之以其所恶。故怯民使之以刑,则勇;勇民使之以赏,则死。怯民勇,勇民死,国无敌者必王。
Discussion about the People:...:
If the people are brave, they should be rewarded with what they desire; if they are timorous, they should be put to death in a manner they hate. In this way timorous people, being incited by punishments, will become brave; and the brave, being encouraged by rewards, will fight to the death. If timorous people become brave, and the brave fight to the death, the country having no equal will certainly attain supremacy.

7 说民:
民贫则弱,国富则淫;淫则有虱,有虱则弱。故贫者益之以刑,则富;富者损之以赏,则贫。治国之举,贵令贫者富,富者贫。贫者富,富者贫,国强。三官无虱,国强;而无虱久者,必王。
Discussion about the People:...:
If the people are poor, they are weak; if the country is rich, they are licentious, and consequently there will be the parasites; the parasites will bring weakness. Therefore, the poor should be benefited with rewards, so that they become rich, and the rich should be injured by punishments, so that they become poor. The important thing in undertaking the administration of a country is to make the rich poor, and the poor rich. If that is effected, the country will be strong. If the three classes of people do not suffer from the parasites, the country will be strong for a long time to come, and such a country, free of parasites, may be certain of supremacy.

8 说民:
刑生力,力生强,强生威,威生德,德生于刑。故刑多则赏重,赏少则刑重。民之有欲有恶也,欲有六淫,恶有四难。从六淫,国弱;行四难,兵强。故王者刑于九,而赏出一。刑于九,则六淫止;赏出一,则四难行。六淫止,则国无奸;四难行,则兵无敌。
Discussion about the People:...:
Punishment produces force, force produces strength, strength produces awe, awe produces virtue. Virtue has its origin in punishments. For the more punishments there are, the more valued are rewards, and the fewer rewards there are, the more heed is paid to punishments, by virtue of the fact that people have desires and dislikes. What they desire are the six kinds of licence, and what they dislike are the four kinds of hardship. Indulgence in these six kinds of licence will make the country weak; but the practice of these four kinds of hardship will make the army strong. Therefore, in a country which has attained supremacy, punishments are applied in nine cases and rewards in one. If in nine cases, punishments are applied, the six kinds of licence will stop, and if in one case rewards are given, the four kinds of hardship will be practised. If the six kinds of licence are stopped, the country will be without crime; and if the four kinds of hardship are practised, the army will be without equal.

9 说民:
民之所欲万,而利之所出一。民非一则无以致欲,故作一。作一则力抟,力抟则强;强而用,重强。故能生力,能杀力,曰:“攻敌之国”,必疆。塞私道以穷其志,启一门以致其欲,使民必先其所恶,然后致其所欲,故力多。力多而不用则志穷,志穷则有私,有私则有弱。故能生力,不能杀力,曰:“自攻之国”,必削。故曰王者国不蓄力,家不积粟。国不蓄力,下用也;家不积粟,上藏也。
Discussion about the People:...:
The things which the people desire are innumerable, but that from which they benefit is one and the same thing. Unless the people be made one, there is no way to make them attain their desire. Therefore, they are unified; as a result of this unification, their strength is consolidated, and in consequence of this consolidation, they are strong; if, being strong, they are made use of, they are doubly strong. Therefore, a country that knows how to produce strength and how to reduce it is said to be one that attacks the enemy, and is sure to become strong. It bars all private roads for gratifying their ambition, and opens only one gate through which they can attain their desire; thus, without doubt, it can make the people first do what they hate, in order thereafter, to reach what they desire; and so their strength will be great. If their strength is great, but not made use of, ambition is gratified; and this being so, there will be private interest and in consequence there will be weakness. Therefore, a country that knows how to produce strength, but not how to reduce it, is said to be one that attacks itself, and it is certain to be dismembered. So it is said that if a state has attained supremacy, it does not reserve its strength and the family does not hoard grain. That the state does not reserve its strength means that its subjects are used, and that the family does not hoard grain means that the superiors keep it in the granaries.

10 说民:
国治:断家王,断官强,断君弱。重轻刑去,常官则治。省刑要保,赏不可倍也。有奸必告之,则民断于心。上令而民知所以应,器成于家而行于官,则事断于家。故王者刑赏断于民心,器用断于家。治明则同,治暗则异。同则行,异则止。行则治,止则乱。治则家断,乱则君断。
Discussion about the People:...:
If the order of the country depends on the judgments of the family, it attains supremacy; if it depends on the judgments of the officials, it becomes only strong; if it depends on the judgments of the prince, it becomes weak. If light offences are heavily punished, punishments will disappear; if officials are permanent, there is orderly administration. The necessary guarantee for restricting the use of punishments is that promises of rewards are kept. If they make it their habit to denounce all crimes, then the people make the judgments in their own minds; and if, when the ruler gives his orders, the people know how to respond, so that the means for enforcing the law are really manufactured in the families and merely applied by the officials, then the judgments over affairs rest with the family. Therefore, in the case of one who attains supremacy, judgments with regard to punishments and rewards rest with the people's own minds, and those with regard to the application of the means for enforcing the law rest with the family. If there is a clear law, people will agree with one another; if there is an obscure law, people will differ from one another. If they agree, things run smoothly, but if they differ, things are hampered; in the former case, there is order, in the latter, disorder. If there is order, it is the families that make judgments; if there is disorder, it is the prince who makes judgments.

11 说民:
治国贵下断,故以十里断者弱,以五里断者强,家断则有馀,故曰日治者王。官断则不足,故曰夜治者强。君断则乱,故曰宿治者削。故有道之国,治不听君,民不从官。
Discussion about the People:...:
Those who administer a country deem it important that inferiors should give judgments; therefore, when ten hamlets are the unit for making judgments, there will be weakness; whereas when five hamlets are the unit for making judgments, there will be strength. If it is the family that gives judgments, there will be abundance. Therefore, of such a country it is said: 'He who creates order in one day will attain supremacy.' If it is the officials who give judgments, the order will not be sufficient; therefore of such a country it is said: 'He who creates order in a night will merely be strong.' But if it is the prince who gives judgments, there will be disorder; therefore of such a country it is said: 'He who procrastinates in creating order will be dismembered.' Therefore in a country that has the true way, order does not depend on the prince, and the people do not merely follow the officials.

URN: ctp:shang-jun-shu/discussion-about-the-people