| Chinese Text Project |
《問道卷第四 - Asking About the Dao》 | English translation: Jeffrey S. Bullock [?] | Library Resources |
| 1 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「道」。曰：「道也者，通也，無不通也。」或曰：「可以適它與？」曰：「適堯、舜、文王者為正道，非堯、舜、文王者為它道。君子正而不它。」 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: |
Someone asked about the Dao. Yangzi said: The Dao is pervasive—there is nothing it does not penetrate. The other said: Can it lead in other directions? Yangzi said: That which leads to Shun, Yao, and King Wen is the correct dao. Those which do not lead to Shun, Yao, and King Wen are the other daos. The junzi follows the correct one and not the others. | |
| 2 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「道」。曰：「道若塗若川，車航混混，不舍晝夜。」或曰：「焉得直道而由諸？」曰：「塗雖曲而通諸夏則由諸，川雖曲而通諸海則由諸。」或曰：「事雖曲而通諸聖則由諸乎？」 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: |
Someone asked about the Dao. Yangzi said: The Dao is like a road or a river. The carts and boats hustle and bustle, not stopping day or night. The other said: How does one get on the straight dao and follow it? Yangzi said: Although the road is crooked, if it still reaches the Xia, then follow it. Although the river is winding, if it still reaches the ocean, then follow it. The other said: So although one's affairs may involve a crooked path, if it still reaches the sage, then follow it? | |
| 3 | 問道卷第... : | 道、德、仁、義、禮，譬諸身乎？夫道以導之，德以得之，仁以人之，義以宜之，禮以體之，天也。合則渾，離則散，一人而兼統四體者，其身全乎！ |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | The Dao, de, ren, yi, and li can be compared to one's body. Now, using the Dao to lead it; using de to complete it; using ren to make it human; using yi to make its behavior appropriate; and using li embody it—this is Tian. If they are united, then the body is complete. If they are separated, then it falls apart. A person whose four limbs work together—his body is complete. | |
| 4 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「德表」。曰：「莫知作，上作下。」「請問禮莫知。」曰：「行禮於彼，而民得於此，奚其知！」或曰：「孰若無禮而德？」曰：「禮，體也。人而無禮，焉以為德？」 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: |
Someone asked about the manifestation of de. Yangzi said: Nobody is aware of its influence. When those above act, those below are influenced. The other said: May I ask why nobody is aware of its influence? Yangzi said: If you put li into practice there, but the people get the benefits here, how could they be aware of it? The other said: What about those who do not perform li and yet have de? Yangzi said: Li is the bodily frame. If a person does not perform li, how can he attain de? | |
| 5 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「天」。曰：「吾於天與，見無為之為矣！」或問：「雕刻眾形者匪天與？」曰：「以其不雕刻也。如物刻商雕之，焉得力而給諸？」 |
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Someone asked about Tian. Yangzi said: In Tian I see the action of wuwei. The other said: The one who cuts and carves the multitude of forms, is it not Tian? Yangzi said: Exactly because it does not cut and carve, the multitude of forms are cut and carved. If things were cut and carved by Tian, where could the strength to sustain it come from? | |
| 6 | 問道卷第... : | 老子之言道德，吾有取焉耳。及捶提仁義，絕滅禮學，吾無取焉耳。 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | As for the Laozi's words about Dao and de, I have adopted them; as for its attacks on ren and yi, cutting off li, and doing away with learning, I have not adopted them. | |
| 7 | 問道卷第... : | 吾焉開明哉？惟聖人為可以開明，它則苓。大哉聖人，言之至也。開之廓然見四海，閉之閛然不睹墻之裏。 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | How can I enlighten others! Only the sage is able to enlighten. Others only make things obscure. Great is the sage, his words are the ultimate! When he opens [the door], you can see the vastness of everything within the four oceans. When the door is slammed shut, you cannot see what is inside the walls of your own room. | |
| 8 | 問道卷第... : | 聖人之言似於水火。或問「水火」。曰：「水，測之而益深，窮之而益遠；火，用之而彌明，宿之而彌壯。」 |
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The sage's words are like water and fire. Someone asked about water and fire. Yangzi said: As for water, the more you measure it, the deeper it gets. The more you trace it to its source, the broader it becomes. As for fire, the more you use it, the brighter it gets. The more you build it up, the more intense it becomes. | |
| 9 | 問道卷第... : | 允治天下，不待禮文與五教，則吾以黃帝、堯、舜為疣贅。 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | If I were allowed to govern all under Heaven, but did not use li, wen, and the Five Teachings, then I would also consider Huangdi, Yao, and Shun to be tumors and cysts. | |
| 10 | 問道卷第... : | 或曰：「太上無法而治，法非所以為治也。」曰：「鴻荒之世，聖人惡之，是以法始乎伏犠而成乎堯，匪伏匪堯，禮義哨哨，聖人不取也。」 |
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Someone said: In the primordial past there were no laws and institutions but yet there was order. Thus laws and institutions are not a means to order. Yangzi said: The sages hated the primeval time. Thus, laws and institutions were established by Fu Xi and were completed by Yao. No Fu, no Yao—li and yi eliminated —the sage would not adopt this. | |
| 11 | 問道卷第... : | 或問：「八荒之禮，禮也，樂也，孰是？」曰，「殷之以中國。」或曰：「孰為中國？」曰：「五政之所加，七賦之所養，中於天地者為中國。過此而往者，人也哉？」 |
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Someone asked: Among the all the world's li, whose li and music is correct? Yangzi said: Use the Central Kingdom's li to correct the others. The other said: Which is the Central Kingdom? Yangzi said: Where the Five Constants of governance obtain, that which is supported by the seven taxes, that which is at the center of Heaven and Earth is the Central Kingdom. As for those who live beyond these borders, can they even be considered men? | |
| 12 | 問道卷第... : | 聖人之治天下也，礙諸以禮樂，無則禽，異則貊。吾見諸子之小禮樂也，不見聖人之小禮樂也。孰有書不由筆，言不由舌？吾見天常為帝王之筆舌也。 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | As for the sage's governance of all under Heaven, he uses li and music as the standard. If there were no li and music, then people would be the same as beasts. If li and music were different, then people would be like the barbarian tribes of the north. I have seen philosophers slight li and music, but I have not seen a sage slight li and music. Who has writings that are not produced by the brush, or words that are not produced by the tongue? I see Heaven's Constants as the brush and tongue of emperors and kings. | |
| 13 | 問道卷第... : | 智也者，知也。夫智用不用，益不益，則不贅虧矣？ |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | Wisdom requires knowledge. Now with wisdom, if one puts to use what has previously not been used, and adds to what has previously not been added to, then there is neither an excess nor an insufficiency. | |
| 14 | 問道卷第... : | 深知器械、舟車、宮室之為，則禮由已。 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | If you deeply understand implements, boats, carts, and dwellings, then li comes naturally from yourself. | |
| 15 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「大聲」。曰，「非雷非霆，隱隱耾々，久而愈盈，尸諸聖。」 |
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Someone asked about the greatest of sounds. Yangzi said: It is not thunder and lightning. Deep and deafening, growing fuller and overflowing the longer it lasts—this sound is entrusted to the sage! | |
| 16 | 問道卷第... : | 或問：「道有因無因乎？」曰：「可則因，否則革。」 |
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Someone asked: Is it the Dao to follow tradition or not? Yangzi said: If tradition is appropriate, then follow it. If not, then change it. | |
| 17 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「無為」。曰：「奚為哉！在昔虞、夏，襲堯之爵，行堯之道，法度彰，禮樂著，垂拱而視天下民之阜也，無為矣。紹桀之後，纂紂之餘，法度廢，禮樂虧，安坐而視天下民之死，無為平？」 |
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Someone asked about wuwei. Yangzi said: Why must there be goal-directed action? In antiquity Shun and Yu inherited Yao's imperial title and practiced Yao's dao. Laws and standards of measurement were clear, li and music were established. They let their hands drop to their sides and watched all people under Heaven prosper—this was wuwei. But as for those who inherited the throne after Jie and Zhou, when laws were abandoned and ritual and music were lost, to sit quietly and watch the death of all people under Heaven—would this have been wuwei? | |
| 18 | 問道卷第... : | 或問：「太古塗民耳目，惟其見也聞也，見則難蔽，聞則難塞。」曰：「天之肇降生民，使其目見耳聞，是以視之禮，聽之樂。如視不禮，聽不樂，雖有民，焉得而塗諸。」 |
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Someone asked: In primordial past rulers covered the people's eyes and ears, yet the people still saw and heard. Because they saw, their eyes were difficult to cover. Because they heard, their ears were difficult to block up. Yangzi said: From the time Tian began to give birth to mankind, it made their eyes able to see and their ears able to hear. Thus, show them li and let them hear music. If you do not show them li and let them hear music, although you have control over people, how will you be able to educate them? | |
| 19 | 問道卷第... : | 或問「新敝」。曰：「新則襲之，敝則益損之。」 |
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Someone asked about the new and the worn out. Yangzi said: If it is new, then wear it. If it is worn out, then either improve it or get rid of it. | |
| 20 | 問道卷第... : | 或問：「太古德懷不禮懷，嬰兒慕，駒犢從，焉以禮？」曰：「嬰、犢乎！嬰、犢母懷不父懷。母懷，愛也：父懷，敬也。獨母而不父，未若父母之懿也。」 |
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Someone asked: Those who live in the primordial past cherished de and did not cherish li. Small children are emotionally attached to their mother; colts and calves follow their mother. When do they use li? Yangzi said: Children and cattle! Children and cattle cherish their mothers but do not cherish their fathers. Cherishing one's mother is love. Cherishing one's father is reverence. Cherishing only the mother and not the father is not as good as cherishing both mother and father. | |
| 21 | 問道卷第... : | 狙詐之家曰：「狙詐之計，不戰而屈人兵，堯舜也。」曰：「不戰而屈人兵，堯舜也；沾項漸襟，堯舜乎。衒玉而賈石者，其狙詐乎？」或問：「狙詐與亡孰愈？」曰：「亡愈。」或曰：「子將六師則誰使？」曰：「禦得其道，則天下狙詐咸作使。禦失其道，則天下狙詐咸作敵。故有天下者，審其禦而已矣！」或問：「威震諸侯，須於征與狙詐之力也，如其亡？」曰：「威震諸侯，須於狙詐可也。未若威震諸侯，而不須狙詐也。」或曰：「無狙詐，將何以征乎？」曰：「縱不得不征，不有《司馬法》乎？何必狙詐乎！」 |
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The tacticians say: By planning tactics, one does not have to fight and can reduce the other's troops to submission. This was the way of Yao and Shun. Yangzi said: Not fighting and reducing the other's troops to submission, this was the way of Yao and Shun. But bloodied necks staining collars—could this have been the way of Yao and Shun? Bragging about jade but peddling stone—are these not your "tactics?" The other asked: Using tactics or discarding them—which is better? Yangzi said: Discarding them is better. The other said: If you led the six armies, whom would you employ? Yangzi said: If you lead by following the Dao, then all the tacticians in the world will become your envoys; if you lead by departing from the Dao, then all the tacticians in the world will become your enemies. Thus, the ruler of all under Heaven investigates leadership, and that's all. The other asked: To threaten the feudal lords, you must attack! That is the strength of tactics. How can tactics be discarded? Yangzi said: "To threaten the feudal lords, you must use tactics"—this may be so. But it is not as good as threatening the feudal lords without need of tactics. The other said: Without tactics, how can a general attack? Yangzi said: Even if he cannot but attack, does he not have the Sima fa? Why are tactics necessary? | |
| 22 | 問道卷第... : | 申、韓之術，不仁之至矣，若何牛羊之用人也？若牛羊用人，則狐貍、螻蚓不膢臘也與？或曰：「刀不利，筆不銛，而獨加諸砥，不亦可乎？」曰：「人砥，則秦尚矣！」 |
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The methods of Shen Buhai and Han Feizi were the ultimate of inhumaneness. How can one use people like cattle and sheep? If one uses them as cattle and sheep, then do foxes, crickets, and earthworms not become the recipients of the lou and winter sacrifices? The other said: If a knife or brush is not sharp, then you just put it to the grindstone. Is that not acceptable? Yangzi said: If putting people to the grindstone were acceptable, then the Qin were the best at it! | |
| 23 | 問道卷第... : | 或曰：「刑名非道邪？何自然也？」曰：「何必刑名，圍棋、擊劍、反目、眩形，亦皆自然也。由其大者作正道，由其小者作奸道。」 |
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Someone said: If the study of forms and names does not accord with the Dao, why is it so natural? Yangzi said: Why must it be forms and names? Chess, fencing, acrobatics, and magic are all "natural." Seeking the natural from the great is the correct dao; seeking it from the petty is the crooked dao. | |
| 24 | 問道卷第... : | 或曰：「申、韓之法非法與？」曰：「法者，謂唐、虞、成周之法也。如申、韓！如申、韓！」 |
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Someone asked: Were the laws and institutions of Shen Buhai and Han Feizi not a model? Yangzi said: "Model" refers to the laws and institutions of Yao, Yu Shun, Cheng Tang, and the Duke of Zhou. How could it refer to Shen Buhai and Han Feizi? | |
| 25 | 問道卷第... : | 莊周、申、韓不乖寡聖人而漸諸篇，則顏氏之子、閔氏之孫其如臺。 |
| Asking About the Dao:...: | If Zhuang Zhou, Shen Buhai, and Han Feizi had not contradicted and made light of the sages, but rather had immersed themselves in their chapters, how would even Yan Yuan and Min Ziqian surpassed them? | |
| 26 | 問道卷第... : | 或曰：「莊周有取乎？」曰：「少欲。」「鄒衍有取乎？」曰：「自持。至周罔君臣之義，衍無知於天地之間，雖鄰不覿也。」 |
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Someone asked: Can anything be learned from Zhuang Zhou? Yangzi said: Make one's desires few. Can anything be learned from Zou Yan? Yangzi said: Self-control. As for Zhou lacking the yi of rulers and subjects, and Yan's ignorance of what lies between Heaven and Earth, even if I were their neighbor, I would not visit them. |
URN: ctp:yangzi-fayan/juan-si